About the Spine?

Hello,

I've not been able to find a comprehensive description on this site that describes the Spine both as an IC faction and as an OC social group! I've picked up a couple of bits from the realm forum, from the Sha'tar wiki, and from the site itself, but I'd be very interested in reading a bit more about the guild and both the IC and OC social conventions and idiosyncrasies!

Cheers!

ICly the Spine are a Forsaken special operations group. Like the A-team, but dead. It's members are made up of either those too unhinged (even by Forsaken standards) for regular service, those who feel they can give more for the cause, those ordered to keep an eye on it and whoever that motley crew can coerce into helping them.

It's like a state aligned paramilitary volunteer force who get all the dangerous/delicate/important/thankless jobs.

Ranks inside the Spine are seperate from whatever job or rank the character would normally have. Hainricht, for an example, is only a Deathstalker captain ordinarily, but he commands the entire department inside The Spine.

OOC we're a bit all over the place. Some of us are into raiding or PvP as well as roleplaying and I believe we're trying to branch into those directions a bit more (just as something to do when we aren't roleplaying, nothing major), but it's mostly what most call a social guild. I know it as a bunch of raving loons shambling onwards towards greater acts of hilarity, deviance and general awesome.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Hainricht!

I guess the kind of stuff that I'm asking could be more specific... although I spent a while yesterday asking these questions to someone recruiting for a different guild, and they logged off after a while rather than answer.

To give a bit of background about what/why I'm asking: I'm really into the philosophy of role-play and role-play game design. I've run a lot of games IRL (including currently being at the start of year 4 of an ongoing twice-weekly larp campaign), but the role-play on WoW has always been something I find incredibly difficult to wrap my head around.

A few questions to start with, then (and I guess a 'why?' or 'why not?' could be tacked onto the end of each):

What does the guild actually *do*? Where do they take their orders from (both IC and OC)?
Does the guild have an ic channel? What's the OC concession to make it happen?
Do guild meetings happen regularly, or just whenever people decide to meet up? Are guild meetings separated along the lines of division within the guild (eg, apothecary, deathstalkers, etc)?
How does the guild reconcile the progress of IC goals against an unchanging world?
What is the role of the guild master? Does anyone take a hand in 'teaching' new players how to roleplay and/or to manage the expectations of new guildies?

Thanks again!

I'll do my best to try and answer your further questions. It's nice to see someone taking so much interest in the guild.

favouredenemy wrote:

What does the guild actually *do*? Where do they take their orders from (both IC and OC)?

What we actually do is quite varied. The Spine doesn't have a specific set of goals and instead acts on the initiative of whatever orders are given to them, sort of like the home guard in that they're only called to action when required. Examples of the kind of activities we're involved in include: Testing the application of new biological weapons, assisting the main Forsaken military in their operations across Lordaeron, carrying out scouting missions to investigate new territory and gather important intel and most recently, working to combat the Twilight Hammer presence within the Horde.
More specific examples include our assaults on Astranaar in Ashenvale, our journey to Shadowmoon Valley to collect powerful reagants, being betrayed by our own Grand Apothecary, assisting in the retaking of Silverpine Forest, convincing the Val'kyr to join the Forsaken and an eventually failed quest to gain control of the Scythe of Elune.
We understand our role in the World of Warcraft as anti-heroes. Our actions aren't necessarily noble and we frequently fail in our goals as to succeed would be too devastating a change to the world for us to realistically claim to have done. Probably the best example of this is when we spent a good couple of months building up to eradicate most of Loch Modan only to have our plans foiled at the worst possible moment.
Event wise we try to ensure that the story written allows for as many people to take part as possible. As such our operations are usually on a medium to large scale with several special ops missions when we're limited for numbers. The characters "department" usually specifies the type of roleplay the player enjoys and this is built upon in the events themselves. It's not unusual for the Apothecaries to stay at the base camp and work on this weekends weapon while the Deathstalkers stealth in pairs and explore the location as the Deathguard storm in and kill everyone before them.

In terms of orders. The Spine is led by a Council of Five which collects:
High Delegate Viatrix Verranos, Veil of the Lady
Father Geriand Dusksworn, Dark Chaplain
Grand Apothecary Felucia Black, of the Royal Apothecary Society
Shadow Marshal Hainricht Kastner, of the Deathstalkers
High Executer Richard Kreed, of the Deathguard

Viatrix leads the council while the other four work together to ensure The Spine's operations are a success and the "departments" work with relatively good cohesion. Due to OOC schooling issues Viatrix is usually away for long periods of time but this rarely impacts on the guilds running and instead his returns are heralded with much joy as we bring event chains to a close with the presence of our glorious leader.

favouredenemy wrote:

Does the guild have an ic channel? What's the OC concession to make it happen?

The guild does have a method of ic communication. We use a collection of enchanted Mirror Shards taken from one of the mirrors in the Throne of Lordaeron. They allow us to visualise and speak with one another from across the world. When people are offline and need contacting we usually provide the excuse they just don’t have their shard on them at the time.

favouredenemy wrote:

Do guild meetings happen regularly, or just whenever people decide to meet up? Are guild meetings separated along the lines of division within the guild (eg, apothecary, deathstalkers, etc)?

We did attempt to have departmental meetings but they never really kicked off. We have been running a sort of Tuesday evening meeting in which we gather in Brill but recently this has just been a catalyst for further roleplay as we’ve grouped the guild together. I am going to try and get a consistent weekly meeting up and running within the next month as when we had them before they helped to engage the guild and focus their characters on the goals and realistic progress within them.

favouredenemy wrote:

How does the guild reconcile the progress of IC goals against an unchanging world?

We usually don’t set ourselves goals which will cause a drastic change to the world. If we know something is going to happen; such as the Forsaken destroying Southshore, we work towards that goal as we know it will happen and the change will be recognised. In other scenarios we have simply claimed that the party we’ve attacked will recover over time, Astraanar for example has simply rebuilt itself. This way, we can make sure that the goals we set are realistic enough to make a difference and have a suitable finale without causing enough havoc to have a visual change occur in the world which can’t obviously happen due to limitations.

favouredenemy wrote:

Does anyone take a hand in 'teaching' new players how to roleplay and/or to manage the expectations of new guildies?

I wouldn’t say we were big as a guild on teaching new roleplayers how to play. We have an application form, which I’m sure you’ve read, that can be quite intimidating to some people but really helps us to assess the people who will be joining the guild. Recently we’ve been using a more focused in game interview process which seems to have a similar effect. It’s important to us that the guild has a high quality of roleplay within it and we always work towards making sure everyone is involved and taking part as often as they can. The expectations of new guildies are usually addressed through the roleplay itself. Despite internal rivalries the guilds characters are fairly welcoming to new players and they’re swiftly inducted into the ranks and find themselves a veteran player/member who they’ll work alongside as they become more comfortable within the guild.

favouredenemy wrote:

What is the role of the guild master?

I'm going to leave this question for Viatrix to answer, as he always seems to do it best.

geriand wrote:

I'll do my best to try and answer your further questions. It's nice to see someone taking so much interest in the guild.

I have always loved the Forsaken in WoW. I'd never really gotten far with levelling one until Cataclysm, and the revamped starting zones. I'd love to be able to supplement my playing with some strong Forsaken-themed rp... I've just always had a really hard time 'getting' WoW rp. It looks like you've got a lot of time to answer these questions, though, so that's a great help!

Just to let you know, if it looks like I've disappeared from the game, that the room in which my computer is set up has lost all its lights, so I'm not really able to play after around 4pm when it gets too dark until the letting agents get their act together and sort it for us.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Thank you Hain and Geri for providing such splendid examples. I'm relieved that someone has finally noticed that we do lack a definitive and detailed explanation of the Guild (both IC and OOC) on our site... And slightly embarrassed that's the case! Fear not! It is on my long list of "To Do" and will be done... Someday. I'll echo what Geri said: it's wonderful to have someone showing such an interest in the Guild and, indeed, Roleplay in general.

The Spine is, if I may so myself, going through a huge BOOM in RP at the moment. Admittedly we've had a few quieter times in the past, and undoubtedly they'll come (RP in WoW tends to go through these cycles, often Winter is busy because people are inside more often and they feel less-bad about not 'getting fresh air', whatever that means). So... I'd absolutely urge you to get on and see for yourself (while the peak of the boom is still booming) what we get up to: there's no better way to fully understand and begin to enjoy RP in WoW. We are, at the moment, probably - dare I say definitely - the most active (in terms of raw numbers and storyline development) RP Guild out there on the Sha'tar, poke your head into Brill whenever you like and see for yourself.

Right, so I'll now try my hand (far too late at night) at a few of the questions... Mostly I'll just be adding to what Geri said, apart from that last question which he kindly left for me!

a. "What does the Guild actually -do-? Where do they take their orders from (both IC and OOC)?
Hopefully Geri explained all of that fine. The main distinction is that -IC-, Viatrix Verranos is the overall leader and the other leaders focus intensely on leading their department (or, in Geri's case, the spiritual side of the Guild). When directing things -IC- we try to be as helpful as possible, giving people a framework in which to RP and setting specific tasks for them to work on. Conversely: -OOC-, we tend to (more or less) lead as a 'collective of five', although I suppose I still hold the casting vote. We definitely don't separate the OOC based on departments and OOC instruction is not at all bossy (as it may be IC) or specific/limiting... We're quite laid back OOC and so 'direction' is fairly loose and easygoing.

b. "Does the Guild have an IC channel?"
Again, I'm pretty sure you got your answer. I would just add one very important distinction: the IC channel is almost always used (99.99999% of the time) to -arrange- RP not as a substitute for meeting up and RP'ing 'in person'. Very occasionally we'll start spontaneous 'conversations' over the IC channel if we're leveling and quite bored. But, most of the time, it's just a quick and easy way of setting up / arranging RP. I think that's just quite an important distinction, we're always very keen to meet up and 'actively' RP, rather than passively type mediocre responses.

The Guild meeting situation is exactly as Geri said as is the 'unchanging world' issue (that last point is something we find ourselves constantly discussing, on the whole we go - as Geri said - for the 'we damaged them but we didn't -destroy- them' approach when attacking enemies... They always have 'reinforcements', it's almost a running joke now).

c. "What is the role of the Guild Master?"
Ouch, this is a complicated one to answer this late at night when I've just drunk far too much Pepsi-Max (which is disgusting, by the way, but it was on offer... So... Yeah...) My role is rather different than most Guild Masters. Because, as Geri put it, of 'schooling' reasons, I only appear online during the holiday seasons (I board at my college so can't really get on WoW). When I do appear, I must add, I am ridiculously active and like to think I 'make up for' my long absences, but it's a fact which definitely shapes the personality of the Guild.

ICly: Viatrix Verranos is a quite distant 'Overseer' of the Spine. She is a fairly high-ranking administrator from the Undercity (and she knows it), meaning that she's also got her eye on several other projects (hence the absences) and does not specify in a particular field of expertise (although she's a damn fine Conjurer). This places a LOT of power into the hands of the other members of ruling 'council', our 'Instructors' (that's the rank in-game, but we generally use their different titles). All in all, Verranos has a very broad, long-term, informed overview of the Spine's campaigns... It is the Instructors who take charge of the detail, day-to-day functioning of the operation. So she might state the Spine's objectives, providing the 'what and why', and launch a new storyline, e.g. "Eradicate the Twilight's Hammer! They are enemies of the Undercity!" (our current focus) and then leave it to the Instructors to work on the 'when and how' of all this. Hope that makes some sense....

OOCly: I don't feel like I really have to do much. The Instructors are usually just as busy and involved as I am, if not more so. Geriand tends to take overall charge of recruitment, while the other three keep their focus on their departments (although, as mentioned, this isn't really a rigid issue in OOC relations). It's sort of similar to the IC functioning. I am always aware of the current storyline, and usually start them off or end them (as Geri mentioned them) when I'm back online for one of my frantic-holiday-WoW-sprees. So I have a view of the 'wider picture' the beginning/end, and I make sure the other Instructors are all creating fun RP from the same framework/premise. And then, as Verranos does IC, I have to leave the details and the 'middle' of the storyline to the Instructors while I'm away.

I hope that's answered it... Not sure if I was blabbering a bit there... Please say if it was... I should be able to answer any other questions pretty promptly. Sadly, I won't be around -online- 9and potentially on here) at the moment all that often, for the 'schooling' reasons mentioned. Please ask away with anything else you like here and I should be able to get back to you (although I'm pretty sure Geri and Hain can also see to that).

Thanks again for the interest, it's refreshing to be questioned so forensically for once!

Viatrx.

Who deals with OC drama?

favouredenemy wrote:

Who deals with OC drama?

Me.

geriand wrote:

favouredenemy wrote:

Who deals with OC drama?

Me.

We do try and avoid 'drama' altogether, to be honest, and - recently - we've been pretty good at this (mainly a result of being far more selective in recruitment). When it does, inevitable, crop up... Well, obviously Geri has a hand in dealing with it (since I'm not around that often) and the other officers sort it out as well... Although I suppose that's the same with any Guild..? Not really sure how else it would be dealt with.

Viatrix wrote:

geriand wrote:

favouredenemy wrote:

Who deals with OC drama?

Me.

We do try and avoid 'drama' altogether, to be honest, and - recently - we've been pretty good at this (mainly a result of being far more selective in recruitment). When it does, inevitable, crop up... Well, obviously Geri has a hand in dealing with it (since I'm not around that often) and the other officers sort it out as well... Although I suppose that's the same with any Guild..? Not really sure how else it would be dealt with.

I am dealing with his issue, don't worry.

'Drama' was probably a bit of a strong word, but at least from the point of view of new players, it seems an important piece of information to have out there!

Geri seems to have it covered.
AND: http://theshatareu.wikia.com/wiki/The_Spine, it's a fairly solid summary which I finished recently of our IC lore/outlook (with a bit of OOC stuff thrown in as well). I'll be adding a 'history' of the Guild so far, eventually, and the whole page is obviously missing pictures.

Yep, was looking at it earlier at work. I think pictures would be great!